the lord of the pits

[Alundra]

I was actually wondering, what are those reddish demonlike creatures that Scatha was working with...? She was obviously looking for the Shadow Sword that fell in the pits when rhue came along and slashed the poor critter. And to ward off any people saying that it was just a dumb monster with no real meaning to it... IT COULD SPEAK AND HAD A LANGUAGE OF ITS OWN -> language is culture, culture means sophisticated -> that means not just a stoepied moenstaar!!... it's probably not the only of his kind which hints at a larger population somewhere in the underway.
But I wonder if they are related to the so-called lord of the pits...
Who or what could this being be? It's obvious that there's some kinda of diety down there that has a lot of minions : barucha and other slimy followers... could this be some kind of opposition versus the purpose? like god and devil? he obvioulsly is real for it granted gruesome powers to his follower (i forgot the dude's name-> his wife got stoned by the guided)... Besides that guy didn't seem to be evil, he just got revenge on the guided out of frustration and grief for loosing his wife and loved one due to the cruel judgement of blind purpose believers. He did try everything as far as praying to the purpose and then he turned to the lord of the pits as a last resource to heal his wife.
(side question: what's that sickness that woman had... it did strike me that scatha might be burned but also have the same thing as that woman... might also be mistaken... it's just that it might be a sign that woman also went trough the reaches...)
But then again the so called devil aka lord of the pits isn't evil intended (yet) for he merely granted the wish of his follower. In fact, he's actually really shy... it doesn't like visitors. It attacks the miners so that they wouldn't delve deeper into its realm and protects most entrances to the underway by placing ferocious guardians: barucha and fligg. What's the devil hiding in his pits? Could that being have anything to do with the swords? Maybe there's a big city underneath the way...crawling with the red beasties that helped scatha...And what might have happend to poor scatha that she's the only one to go down there at free will? (she did mention the horror she saw so why go back there...)

And on a side note... what's the history behind the blades. We do know that they have tremendous power and that they might alter a person's character, but as far as i recall there is never given any purpose to the blades whatsoever...weapons like that aren't trivial things to be left just lingering around in a world without having a purpose to be used for...
Maybe it are remnants of a huge passed war or something? has anybody any ideas on that?

Oh and to end this first new post since a while:
YUP I'M BACK AGAIN and this time I highly doubt that this is a SPAM topic!!!!!!!!! I think i've posted some interesting points to think about that this topic doesn't have to get locked within the first hour of existance ....

SO PLEASE STOP RUINING THIS POST AND ONLY REPLY WHEN YOU'VE GOT SOMETHING INTERESTING TO SAY ... BEYOND HOMOPHOBIC REMARKS OR THE NEED OF SEXUAL INTERCOURSE WITH EACHOTHERS MOMMIES!!!!

[Telephalsion]

Apart form the last six lines it was pretty good.


ahem: yes the fact that the monster, scatha and sacrifa all spoke the same monster language indicatges that it isnt just random babble but another language, presumably used by troglodytes.

The swords must have a purpose, if both types were created at the same time I can't think of anything good, but if one was created first the other is meant to counter the first. The question is then: What is the purpose of the first?

Yes the sickness might have inflicted scatha aswell... really interesting, it would give a reason to her wearing full covarage armour all day and night.

[Sephiroth555]

Scatha got burned and thats that. She wouldnt have some disease rotting away her flesh bcause you would be able to smell it... right?

Good pointers though Alundra, really well thought out and interesting.. except for the last few lines which Telephasion pointed out

[Kyle]

Those last few lines may have been out of place, but you can't contradict the fact that many of his serious posts in the past have often been locked due to others ruining it.

As for smelling the disease, I don't think so. Rhue meets the lady in the park twice and doesn't ever mention her smelling odd. I don't think she has inflicted the disease however. It was probably just introduced as the motive for Sacrifa's actions.

[Telephalsion]

Well if scatha had the disease it would give her a reason to help sacrifa find a cure for his wife and also find a cure for herself. she did help jopaga who, unless i'm mistaken, worked for sacrifa.

besides, the flesh wasn't rotting, like lepracy, but it looked like some plauge, like chickenpox or something.

[DSOK]

Well if scatha had the disease it would give her a reason to help sacrifa find a cure for his wife and also find a cure for herself. she did help jopaga who, unless i'm mistaken, worked for sacrifa.

Sacrifa gave Jopaga research funding, but the mad scientist didn't really work on what his benefactor wanted. At one point, we hear Sacrifa talking with somebody else through a locked door. They're discussing whether this other individual could continue Jopaga's research in the direction that Sacrifa originally intended (that is, with an eye toward curing Lilah). Did we ever learn who that other individual from Jopaga's lab was though?

besides, the flesh wasn't rotting, like lepracy, but it looked like some plauge, like chickenpox or something.

Leprosy doesn't cause any rotting, not directly. It just causes one to loose all sensation in the extremities. If a victim gets a cut or a sore, they may not notice, and it could very easily become infected. That's where the gangrenous effect comes from.

Back on the main topic, consider this. The Purpose is believed to want individuals not to settle. When too many people settle, as in Janwen or Estrana, there's a catastrophe. We know that the Lord of the Pits (an appelation for Satan, which is significant, given what fwacho has stated about how carefully names are chosen) destoyed Estrana, so the Purpose could very well be trying to protect people from the other's evil.

[Sage Of The Wise]

About the swords, I think that the shadow and Illumati are one in the same, they just change to reflect the users intentions.

[nightshadow]

don't look now, but I think Lun's reading a Bible....and figuring out the next plot line from there...

Isn't it a bit strange that every single plot point has been found in the Bible?

a mon avis...

[DSOK]

Isn't it a bit strange that every single plot point has been found in the Bible?

No. There's an awful lot of narrative material in the Bible, so if you look only at the broad sweep of The Way's plot points, it's pretty likely you can find them duplicated in holy writ.

[Alundra]

I've posted another topic which i think might be related to this one... on the subject of those mysterious citadels.... They might be connected the swords and demonfolk alltogether. There are remnants of the past all around:
*What is the rolling mist and how did it come to be?
*What are the forerunners and when did they start to forerun?? why did they start to go abroad?
*If buildings are hated and loathed so much by the guided, why then do they live in estrana?? How long would it take to build estrana? Didn't the rolling mist sweep around destroying most buildings and life??
*Would you trust something like a way mark?
*What or where is the upperway? is it a path trough the mountains or a floating city? and how do people know it?
*What is the plunge and why did it started? who founded it?

a lot of questions I know but i'm sure that Lun did figure this out to make the game work ok... So they might offer us clues as understanding the past might make us understand the present.
wasn't there already a notice of something like a PS in the past?
Maybe its something that returns once so very often... LIke in legend of dragoon...

The way I see things is that once in a distant past humanity battled evil beings -> the lord of the pits...
They created the black swords and humanity fought back with their own good versions : illumniati.
Big battle followed and the evil was struck but not destroyed...
Lets say that the big citadels were the first strongholds of humanity...
They hid inside and released a powerful weapon : BIG BOOM -> rolling mists...
The big boom also spread a curse, most of the cities got plauged and so the ppl had to flee not to get plagued themselves. Hence the citadels become more avoided then loved...
Most of the evil creatures took the plague down to their underground realm. And thus only when you get into contact with them you get the disease -> see the wife of sacrificia, tough that contradicts itself for sacrificia only got in touch with the demons AFTER his wife got sick... So there might be a connection between jopanga and that woman, or i'm way to paranoid...
That would also explain why scatha got the illness it assuming she is plagued (seeing the armour day and night quote) ... she also might have a burnt face and that's all... But there's more going on... or am i the only one to notice her reptile like sssss and hhhh...

[DSOK]

I've posted another topic which i think might be related to this one... on the subject of those mysterious citadels.... They might be connected the swords and demonfolk alltogether. There are remnants of the past all around:
*What is the rolling mist and how did it come to be?

It's not clear the the rolling mists, at either the front or the rear of The Way actually exist. We've never seen them, but we have seen numerous indications that the front of The Way does not behave as it should. For example, Gaius says that he brings Rhue to where the end of The Way used to be, but its not there any more. What is there is an area that somebody (maybe Rhue, maybe not) has already been, with no sign of mists in sight.

Dirk has also indicated that there are probably no Forerunners, which also bears on the situation. See below.

*What are the forerunners and when did they start to forerun?? why did they start to go abroad?

It's implied that the main (or perhaps only) requirement to become a Forerunner is to catch up with them at the front of The Way. So, once you get to meet a Forerunner, you're a Forerunner yourself. Ergo, no non-Forerunner has ever met one.

Dirk, perhaps, has been all the way to the front of The Way and back again (or maybe he looped around to the reat) without meeting any Forerunners, so perhaps they don't exist, even if The Way does have a front. It's then a powerful question where the signposts, citadels, and wells (Do we ever see any wells?) come from.

*If buildings are hated and loathed so much by the guided, why then do they live in estrana?? How long would it take to build estrana? Didn't the rolling mist sweep around destroying most buildings and life??

Your first question was explained quite clearly in the game. Dwelling in Estrana was one of the steps Sacrifa took in his effort to find a cure for Lilah. As to the last part, if the mists exist, the mists are obviously a long way back from where the characters are currently, and it's clear that settlements can survive for years at least.

*Would you trust something like a way mark?

Because, as far as anyone can tell, they're unfailingly accurate. There was some queer discussion early on about it being bad luck to rename a stretch, If this has any significance, it wil be as part of the aforementioned Forerunner puzzle.

*What or where is the upperway? is it a path trough the mountains or a floating city? and how do people know it?

Wait and see.

*What is the plunge and why did it started? who founded it?

Who says there has to be anything special about the plunge? It uses swords, so it would be believed to be a uniquely human activity, as only humans use swords. (This might tell us something about that guy in the pits; the folklore, or whatever it is, that only humans use swords might be evidence that that guy cannot be merely a demon.) Maybe the plunge has some profound importance in the cosmology, but there's no guarantee.

[Telephalsion]

Humans or humaniods.

anyways, the bible can be interprated in o many ways.

[DSOK]

Humans or humaniods.

It says specifically that only humans use swords in the game. (This is in connection with the Phantom Slasher.) The logical conclusion would be that there aren't any known humanoid races that use swords. You don't see many humanoids in the game (the only ones I can think of are the ones appearing on The Lower Way), so this is reasonably consistent.

[fwacho]

don't look now, but I think Lun's reading a Bible....and figuring out the next plot line from there...

Isn't it a bit strange that every single plot point has been found in the Bible?

a mon avis...

Very observant

[fwacho]

I've posted another topic which i think might be related to this one... on the subject of those mysterious citadels.... They might be connected the swords and demonfolk alltogether. There are remnants of the past all around:
*What is the rolling mist and how did it come to be?
*What are the forerunners and when did they start to forerun?? why did they start to go abroad?
*If buildings are hated and loathed so much by the guided, why then do they live in estrana?? How long would it take to build estrana? Didn't the rolling mist sweep around destroying most buildings and life??
*Would you trust something like a way mark?
*What or where is the upperway? is it a path trough the mountains or a floating city? and how do people know it?
*What is the plunge and why did it started? who founded it?

a lot of questions I know but i'm sure that Lun did figure this out to make the game work ok... So they might offer us clues as understanding the past might make us understand the present.
wasn't there already a notice of something like a PS in the past?
Maybe its something that returns once so very often... LIke in legend of dragoon...

The way I see things is that once in a distant past humanity battled evil beings -> the lord of the pits...
They created the black swords and humanity fought back with their own good versions : illumniati.
Big battle followed and the evil was struck but not destroyed...
Lets say that the big citadels were the first strongholds of humanity...
They hid inside and released a powerful weapon : BIG BOOM -> rolling mists...
The big boom also spread a curse, most of the cities got plauged and so the ppl had to flee not to get plagued themselves. Hence the citadels become more avoided then loved...
Most of the evil creatures took the plague down to their underground realm. And thus only when you get into contact with them you get the disease -> see the wife of sacrificia, tough that contradicts itself for sacrificia only got in touch with the demons AFTER his wife got sick... So there might be a connection between jopanga and that woman, or i'm way to paranoid...
That would also explain why scatha got the illness it assuming she is plagued (seeing the armour day and night quote) ... she also might have a burnt face and that's all... But there's more going on... or am i the only one to notice her reptile like sssss and hhhh...

Dude, Great questions. All of them have already been answered by Lun in and I (sometimes in a heated fit of annoyance with the other) but not nessaccrily in the game although the future will reveal more answers to these (but not all). We have tried to give the players at least a guess at the answer to all of these questions. If you can find an answer to one or two of the questions the rest should answer themselves(mostly) .

i wish I could say more, but i really can't and not spoil too much.