Strata: Down but not out?

[Strayed Wanderer]

Well that's as much an assumption as my theory :roll:

On the contrary, while you take absence of evidence as evidence of absence, my argument is based merely on the principle that such an inference (besides being completely unjustified logically) is not likely to be correct when it requires a characterization that is contrary to the generalities of human nature.

You are no longer allowed to type, speak, or use hand signals.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure we'll see Strata again... I'm not sure I believe that he will be as important as he was.

[Amgard]

Strata is NOT evil. Where is this idea gotten?

He's a dick, he's an asshole, he can be hated to every measure that can measure hating pricks, but he is NOT EVIL.

He inherently hates Rhue because he has an inferiority complex, he does mean things to Rhue. When you look at it, Rhue is a major prick himself. Strata is just a cocky fighter who has it in for Blue Boy. He's just a high-school bully, or the "Gary" principle (From Pokemon, their themes and entrances were identical).

Strata, yes, felt incredibly remorse that he took Lyrra for granted a tad too late. Right then he realized that other people have feelings, and he didn't understand it. Now with the girl he JUST realized he loves lying dead on the ground, what's his first impulse?

Kill Rhue.

I'd admit I'm in his shoes. Even if I didn't care for Lyrra at all, if Rhue pulled something like that on a girl, I'd have tried to kill him. Strata is neutral. He acts on how he feels, has no real higher goal, and really doesn't oppose anyone.

DSOK: Your entire arguement relies on a lack of Occham's Razor.

[DSOK]

Strata is NOT evil. Where is this idea gotten?

That one's dead easy. After stealing Rhue's rabbit (not exactly a good act, but hardly the most depraved), what does he do? He tries to kill Rhue, just to cover his tracks.

Having missed that crucial point, the rest of your argument, while not without its insights, its totally misguided.

[Amgard]

Was his intention even to kill him? Why didn't he just make a fatal slice? He hurt Rhue to stop resistance.

Like I said, he's a dick, but he's not a villain

[DSOK]

Was his intention even to kill him? Why didn't he just make a fatal slice? He hurt Rhue to stop resistance.

First, it is only a very minor mitigation if he only had intended to delay him. The wound would have been fatal, had not Rhue been rescued. (How do you think people generally die of blade wounds anyway? They bleed to death. A single killing stroke with a normal sword is practically impossible. The blade is to big to fit between the ribs and puncture the heart or to be inserted into the orbit, yet it's too light to behead somebody without an awful lot of hacking.) This brings me to my second point:

Given the depth to which Strata imbeds his sword in Rhue's body, it's pretty hard to believe that he did not intend to kill him. Moreover, even if his original intention was not to inflict a fatal wound, an experienced fighter like Strata should have recognized the seriousness of the injury he had inflicted. He must have known Rhue would bleed to death if left unaided, yet he does nothing to help him.

Third, that's not the only time he tries to kill Rhue. He pushes Rhue down into the pits as well. Based on what is apparently known about the pits, Rhue's odds for survival down there were slim (and indeed he barely made it out). And that's assuming he would automatically live throught the fall.

Like I said, he's a dick, but he's not a villain

He's a cold-blooded killer, plain and simple.

[Amgard]

He's a child. He does things without realizing the consequences (Running away from Lyrra, Saving Cetsa, telling Lyrra about Jed) in that he's impulsive, and just wants the quick answer

And honestly, what does a 32x16 sized sprite have that indicated a "deep" wound. You make incredibly huge assumptions based on what can be and what can't be. Realize this is an RPG, not the real world. It follows RPG logic, not real world logic.

[DSOK]

He's a child. He does things without realizing the consequences (Running away from Lyrra, Saving Cetsa, telling Lyrra about Jed) in that he's impulsive, and just wants the quick answer

I think you're arguing a pretty indefensible postion. If someone acts on impulse, and those impulses involve killing poeple just out of spite, then that sombody is pretty evil. The fact that their evil is of an impulsive nature is completely irrelevant.

And honestly, what does a 32x16 sized sprite have that indicated a "deep" wound. You make incredibly huge assumptions based on what can be and what can't be. Realize this is an RPG, not the real world. It follows RPG logic, not real world logic.

There are three answers to this. First, it does show Strata's sword embedding pretty deeply in Rhue; if Lun wanted to display something else, this would not have been difficult. Second, you have responded to only one of the three points I made; either of the other two would be sufficient proof of Strata's evil.

Finally, if you refuse to apply some measure of real-world-based reasoning to the game, then no judgements whatsoever can be made. It is important to recognize when real-world reasoning cannot be applied (see my recent comments about whether Rhue is evil), but in this instance, where one man kills another to cover up a petty theft, there's nothing whatsoever to prevent us from passing reasonable judgement on Strata based on what we've seen.

[Strayed Wanderer]

I think we do have evidence of swords within The Way being more than capable of slicing through bone, I'm pretty sure Jed's head came off with only one slice. If Strata really cared what happened to Rhue, he probably would've finished the job.

I agree that he is just an asshole, and he never really seemed to hate Rhue as much as he could have. When they met in the ready-room hallway after the arena fight he seemed to be content with winning the fight and didn't show as much hostility as one would expect. He simply enjoys showing off, at least until the end where his hatred would probably grow after beating him.

[DSOK]

I agree that he is just an asshole, and he never really seemed to hate Rhue as much as he could have. When they met in the ready-room hallway after the arena fight he seemed to be content with winning the fight and didn't show as much hostility as one would expect. He simply enjoys showing off, at least until the end where his hatred would probably grow after beating him.

Actually, that's a sign of a truly pschopathic personality--being willing to kill somebody, then not caring or bearing them any particular ill will.

That particular issue is only addressed in passing at this site, but the description of a psychopath otherwise reads like a personal profile of Strata.

Moreover, lest you think psychopathy is not so serious, this article contains a detailed (but highly technical) discussion of the important differences between being a psychopath and merely being a jerk (i.e. antisocial).

[Flibbo]

I think we do have evidence of swords within The Way being more than capable of slicing through bone

in fact we have evidance of swords in the way being able to cut through metal, in the biggining of ep#3 we find rhue's sword sticking through a guard's helmet. granted they were suprised by this so it may only be rhue's sword but still...

[Kyle]

That particular issue is only addressed in passing at this site, but the description of a psychopath otherwise reads like a personal profile of Strata.

Moreover, lest you think psychopathy is not so serious, this article contains a detailed (but highly technical) discussion of the important differences between being a psychopath and merely being a jerk (i.e. antisocial).

Umm... It's a game, not a tribute to psychology...

You can have your opinion and real-life comparisons for Strata, but the rest of us don't see him like that. Let's just say that in a game there could be much much much much bigger evil than Strata (he's not trying to annihilate the planet or entire universe for example, so he's pretty soft ).

[DSOK]

You can have your opinion and real-life comparisons for Strata, but the rest of us don't see him like that. Let's just say that in a game there could be much much much much bigger evil than Strata (he's not trying to annihilate the planet or entire universe for example, so he's pretty soft ).

So you redefine evil for the game? I pointed out earlier that people do tend to do this. But still, this point of view is ridiculous. Just because their may be evils of an extraordinary nature, that doesn't mean that the lesser evils stop being evil.

Evil is not relative.

[Flibbo]

i don't think anybody should be called evil

everyone has their own personality, just because he has done evil things in his past it doesn't mean he is evil forever.
he will most probably go on to evil things but the fact that he showed pity for lyrra shows that like everbody he has a more complex personality than such simple labels as "good" and "evil.

if he was a dnd character he would be neutral evil, he will do anything that benifits himself but is able to do good as well as bad.

is darth vader evil?

[Kyle]

So you redefine evil for the game? I pointed out earlier that people do tend to do this. But still, this point of view is ridiculous. Just because their may be evils of an extraordinary nature, that doesn't mean that the lesser evils stop being evil.

Evil is not relative.

Sure, I don't see what's wrong with redefining evil for a particular game. You say it's not relative, but say a game has nohting but killers and that's the normal situation. Then there's this guy who kills all these guys, then who's evil? I'd say that one person who kills the others. At least, in that game, certainly not in real life.

I'm not saying that's how it is in The Way, but generally games tend to make a difference between EVIL and bad. Evil are the guys who make good end bosses, who don't think of anything else but destruction. Guys like Strata are a diversionary evil. They run by, do something bad, but still have the possibility to make a 180° turn and turn good.

Oh and by the way, it's generally not a good idea to call other people's points of view ridiculous...

[DSOK]

i don't think anybody should be called evil

I'm sorry, but that's just foolish and irresponsible. Evil is real.

"It is the greatest art of the devil to convince us he does not exist." -Baudelaire*

everyone has their own personality, just because he has done evil things in his past it doesn't mean he is evil forever.
he will most probably go on to evil things but the fact that he showed pity for lyrra shows that like everbody he has a more complex personality than such simple labels as "good" and "evil.

It shows that he has a personality that is believably human. However, that does not change the bare fact that he is evil. This solitary act will not serve to redeem him from that. A more profound or altruitic act of goodness might. However, what he does do is actually pretty minimal. He chases after somebody he already dislikes (and has tried to kill), because that person has just killed his girlfriend. This is an act of pettyness and vengeance, against an enemy who had destroyed something that Strata thought of as his possession. (The fact that Strata had recently discarded Lyrra counts a little in his favor in this regard, but not much.)

if he was a dnd character he would be neutral evil, he will do anything that benifits himself but is able to do good as well as bad.

So, you now concede that he is indeed evil?

is darth vader evil?

Darth Vader is absolutely evil. (In fact, one major viewpoint that Obi-Wan Kenobi and to a lesser extent Luke seem to hold is that Darth Vader is inherently evil; the name itself belongs to the evil, not the man.) As a remarked before, in relation to Cetsa, the only possibility for a truly hardened villain to redeem himself is for him to go willingly to his death in an act of altruism; this is eactly what Anakin Skywalker does in the emperor's throne room. It is not required that he actually die, but it is crucial that he be expecting death. (However, in a story, it is generally required that he die for dramatic purposes. Consider Boromir, whose failure in the face of temptation was far less serious than Anakin's; yet the he too must die to redeem himself, teaching the same ultimate lesson.)




* Lest anyone take issue, I should point out that Baudelaire did not mean this in a religious sense. The devil he referred to was evil personified. I will grant, however, that at times, he did appear to believe that this mystical personification of evil could be a very real malevolent force.