Two events on the landorin stretch?

[DSOK]

Here's what i think.

The Way is repeating itself. Gaius and Rhue kill Strata, who's going to avenge Lirra, and then leave. Why do they team up together? Cause Gaius will tell something to Rhue that can explain a lot of things about the loop of the Way.

This seems very unlikely to me. Gaius obviously knows more than he's letting on (about any number of things), but he seemed genuinely surprised that the place he led Rhue wasn't actually the "End of The Way" any more. So I doubt that Gaius understands the large-scale structure of The Way.

Later they wander to the mountains, while the Landorin massacre occurs, with different kids this time, and they then find the "new Rhue" and give him that sword, cause Gaius makes Rhue understand that he can't keep it. And then everything re-starts...

There are two fairly obvious difficulties with this. First, if the place where Rhue and Gaius have found themselves really is the Landorin Stretch, then I can' t imagine how any group of wanderers would bring their children there, given the place's evil reputation. (They would most likely avoid the place even for themselves.) However, there was a cryptic comment early in the game about it being considered unlucky to rename a stretch (although nobody seems to know how one could go about making changes to a waypost anyway), and it does seem possible that this remark might have some greater significance later--most likely in connection with Landorin--so this suggestion is not entirely unreasonable.

The second objection to this idea is more of a meta-complaint. Specifically, it's not clear what could happen to the game after a point in time like you describe, when somebody new becomes "Rhue." The game could continue, since The Way is clearly not repeating itself exactly, but a lot of drama would still probably be lost. The alternative is that the game ceases right there, which seems equally unsatisfying and pretty hackneyed, actually.

[Impossible]

Ah, but you've gotta keep in mind that what's happening now has all happened before, if the Way is in a cycle (Janwen, Estrana, previous Phantom Slashers...). DSOK brought up an interesting point, that people would know about things from previously. Perhaps this time around, Landorin has a different name, and something happens there to make this new stretch into the next Landorin, but... Something still seems wrong here, and I think we'll find out what in E6.

[DSOK]

Ah, but you've gotta keep in mind that what's happening now has all happened before, if the Way is in a cycle (Janwen, Estrana, previous Phantom Slashers...). DSOK brought up an interesting point, that people would know about things from previously. Perhaps this time around, Landorin has a different name, and something happens there to make this new stretch into the next Landorin, but... Something still seems wrong here, and I think we'll find out what in E6.

There's a fine line between what constitutes The Way repeating itself and what is merely similar events happening repeatedly. The latter (a sort of metaphorical circularity to The Way) seems more reasonable based on what we've seen. After all, the time between the destruction of Janwen and the burning of Estrana is hundreds of years at least, while the time between the massacre and Rhue's apparent return to Landorin is only about ten. I would suggest that any apparent repetition of The Way should be taken more as a thematic than a literal phenomenon.

[Impossible]

After all, the time between the destruction of Janwen and the burning of Estrana is hundreds of years at least, while the time between the massacre and Rhue's apparent return to Landorin is only about ten.

We don't know a whole lot about Janwen or Landorin... Like I said, we're missing something here.

[DSOK]

We don't know a whole lot about Janwen or Landorin... Like I said, we're missing something here.

Are you saying that my statements about the timeframes are inaccurate? The Wanderers' Guidebook refers to Janwen as "legendary" (and "historical" in the same breath, I must confess), so I would conclude that it burned at the very least, significantly before the lifetime of anyone yet alive on The Way. The Landorin massacre occured when Lyrra was a child. If she was seven at that time and seventeen now (both reasonable guesses), then it has been ten years. It can't possibly have been more than twenty, since that is the age Rhue is said to look, and Traziun does not seem to disbelieve the possibility that Rhue may have been present at the massacre.

[Impossible]

I never denied any of that. I'm not gonna repeat myself again. There's something else here, the repeating is relevant to the story - especially since Rhue is back at Landorin now.

[Large]

I don't think he's denying your arguments. He just said that despite we do know Janwen was a huge settlement, in ancient times, and that it got burned, perhepas like a punishment from the Purpose (So the popular belief of settlements as evil comes from that story), and we do know how Landorin was a stretch that witnessed a horrible massacre, and another even more horrific event, we do not know a lot of things about them. How did Janwen got burned? Where was it? Did it have citadels? Who caused the burning? Why is Landorin at what was supposed to be the End of the Way?

You see?

[DSOK]

I never denied any of that. I'm not gonna repeat myself again. There's something else here, the repeating is relevant to the story - especially since Rhue is back at Landorin now.

I did not intend to accuse you of anything, but I was simply unsure whether you disagreed with my temporal conclusions. There certainly is an appearance of repetition at this point, but it could merely be thematic, or it might not really exist at all. Janwen, as far as we know, was destroyed by fire, but Estrana was destroyed by something else entirely. (Parts of the city did catch fire, but that was just an incidental effect.) Moreover, there is no particularly strong evidence that the place where Episode 5 ends--even if it is a place Rhue has been before--is actually Landorin. We just have Rhue's word for it, and frankly, that's not worth much. So the "repetitions" may be entirely an illusion.

[Flibbo]

Moreover, there is no particularly strong evidence that the place where Episode 5 ends--even if it is a place Rhue has been before--is actually Landorin. We just have Rhue's word for it, and frankly, that's not worth much. So the "repetitions" may be entirely an illusion.

there are hints though
in the town where you meet Forewoman Hill and do the cannon mini-game (damn my memory for names) i took note of a book called "repetitive anomalys of the way" suggesting a loop and if they're world is anything like ours (i.e. globular) it is concevable that they just "wandered" in one huge circle (if Micheal Palin can do it in 80 days Rhue can do it in 10 years or so)

[DSOK]

there are hints though
in the town where you meet Forewoman Hill and do the cannon mini-game (damn my memory for names) i took note of a book called "repetitive anomalys of the way" suggesting a loop and if they're world is anything like ours (i.e. globular) it is concevable that they just "wandered" in one huge circle (if Micheal Palin can do it in 80 days Rhue can do it in 10 years or so)

There are hints, but they are so vague that they could mean nothing. One person is researching past hazards of The Way--earlier analogues of the Phantom Slasher. Does this sound like cyclic history? Not really, as it's hardly surprising that there should have been other dangers (and even specifically serial killers) during the long(?) history of The Way.

It's too easy to interpret similarities as part of a overarching pattern. Spengler put forward the theory that real-world history was cyclic, based on similarities in happenenings and progressions from many time periods. If you want a good introduction to this theory (elaborating both its possible usefulness and its weaknesses), you could read The Voyage of the Space Beagle, probably the best novel by the prolific science fiction author A. E. van Vogt.

[Flibbo]

no ill pass thanks

so your saying that these hints are just lun adding an extra level of story to his game with other wanderer's false theories? thats quite cool.
or i suppose he could just be putting them there to mess with our minds and make people like me take screenshots of useless information.

[DSOK]

no ill pass thanks

It's a very good book, and Spengler's theories are not exactly the centerpiece.

so your saying that these hints are just lun adding an extra level of story to his game with other wanderer's false theories? thats quite cool.
or i suppose he could just be putting them there to mess with our minds and make people like me take screenshots of useless information.

It's hardly a novel idea to insert red herrings into a mystery, and this is a pretty logical red herring. After all, it's exactly the kind of theory one would expect wanderers to develop. A natural human impulse is to look to the past for answers to what's happening in the present. Sometimes, the past can be similar enough to the present that useful knowledge can be gained, but frequently, gazing back at history is a waste of time. Hence the Russian aphorism: "History teaches no lessons and punishes harshly those to fail to learn them."

[Impossible]

I did not intend to accuse you of anything, but I was simply unsure whether you disagreed with my temporal conclusions. There certainly is an appearance of repetition at this point, but it could merely be thematic, or it might not really exist at all. Janwen, as far as we know, was destroyed by fire, but Estrana was destroyed by something else entirely. (Parts of the city did catch fire, but that was just an incidental effect.) Moreover, there is no particularly strong evidence that the place where Episode 5 ends--even if it is a place Rhue has been before--is actually Landorin. We just have Rhue's word for it, and frankly, that's not worth much. So the "repetitions" may be entirely an illusion.

And that's why you tend to be so closed-minded. Fwacho mentioned a connection between Estrana and "a similar city" a while back. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Janwen was destroyed in exactly the same way as Estrana, and in fact I think it probably was. People are gonna think it was fire that caused Estrana's destruction, too.
Perhaps it was all triggered by the Phantom Slasher, since that's another thing that seems to be repeating. The only thing we're missing is an explanation about Landorin. The point is, SOMETHING on the Way is going in a circle, and it's not just thematic.
And what you said at the end of that message is more proof towards this. Maybe there were other cities between Janwen and Estrana we don't know about? Maybe that's not Landorin, but some illusion created by the End of the Way? It could be that different Wanderers see different things on that stretch. As I said, there's just one missing piece of the puzzle.

[DSOK]

And that's why you tend to be so closed-minded.

Ok, first of all, I'm not closed-minded. I'm willing to consider any theory on its merits. You, on the other hand, seem to have made up your mind already and are prepared to shoehorn any facts to fit.

But secondly, what is why I'm supposed to be closed-minded.

Fwacho mentioned a connection between Estrana and "a similar city" a while back. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Janwen was destroyed in exactly the same way as Estrana, and in fact I think it probably was. People are gonna think it was fire that caused Estrana's destruction, too.
Perhaps it was all triggered by the Phantom Slasher, since that's another thing that seems to be repeating. The only thing we're missing is an explanation about Landorin. The point is, SOMETHING on the Way is going in a circle, and it's not just thematic.

"The only thing we're missing is an explanation about Landorin"? Are all other questions satisfactorily resolved? Well, let's see if you've addressed them. Oh yes, you have. "Perhaps it was all triggered by the Phantom Slasher...." Well, that's pretty conclusive evidence of repetition. We'd better move on and not think critically about this any more.

And what you said at the end of that message is more proof towards this. Maybe there were other cities between Janwen and Estrana we don't know about? Maybe that's not Landorin, but some illusion created by the End of the Way? It could be that different Wanderers see different things on that stretch. As I said, there's just one missing piece of the puzzle.

You seem to have pretty loose definition Of "one missing piece." To me, this sounds rather more like all the pieces are missing.

Plus, for your suggestion to be taken entirely seriously, there would have to have been a large city destroyed on The Way only about a decade past. Funny how The Guided, who are always talking about the horrors of Janwen, never seem to mention this much more immediate and compelling example of the tragedies of settling. And would there need to be such a city obliterated every ten years or so? You'd think somebody over the age of thirty might catch onto this insidious pattern.

[Impossible]

God, you really are being ignorant towards all this.
Who said it was a city? I don't see any definite evidence that what happened and repeated with Estrana and Janwen was just the destruction of a city. You're already ignoring how likely it is that the two are connected, but I'm saying that maybe something similar happened outside of a settlement, and perhaps caused the Landorin Massacre, or the "other" event that took place there.
Maybe there isn't just a single cycle. I never said my theories were fact, so obviously it's just you missing the point. I didn't say all the mysteries of the Way were solved but one, and I really just meant it would be ignorant to assume the PS has nothing whatsoever to do with it, too (not saying he does, but you can't just pretend he isn't there).

Stop being so fucking close-minded and consider it for a moment. I never said I was completely right, I'm theorising and I'm pretty damn certain this repetition exists somehow.
And, as you obviously missed the point before, I never fucking said the place at the end of E5 HAD to be Landorin.