Just a theory

[Sage Of The Wise]

scenes of Dream Estrana are markedly different. First and foremost, the other individuals present acknowledge Rhue's presence, which doesn't make any sense, given that this is supposed to be a past happening he is merely observing.

The scenes with Slade were memories, but Rhue was more then an observer in those. When Slade wakes up he says to himself whatever you say to him in the memory, so he wasn't just an observer.

Anyway, has anyone else noticed Kloe, Cetsa, and Dirk in dream Estrana? They're at the bottom right corner, but I don't think you can see it from the game, only in rm2k.

Thats just left over from other maps.

[Shade]

Well, one thing is certain.... I'm always wrong. I doubt Dirk, Kloe and Cetsa's presence in rm2k mean anything. It's like the Lexus on the tower, if we can't see her there in the game, she's probably not going to be relevant. If they are there for a reason, though, it conflicts with the theory of Rhue being responsible for the deaths of everyone there. It also conflicts with the all dead theory itself(unless Lun kills off Dirk and Scatha, and they are going to be there in Ep.6 which is highly unlikely). Cetsa being there for a reason totally contradicts the theory, in which, everyone in dream Estrana is there because they have all been killed by Rhue as the PS. This is, unless Rhue comes across Cetsa and finishes her off(again highly unlikely because she's probably dead anyways. It's kind of a rule that if someone does something to receive peace(Slade) it shouldn't be undone). These are my thoughts though(meaning they aren't worth much). (Wow... there are a lot of parentheses in this paragraph )

[Sage Of The Wise]

Midian is transparent when he talks to Jed, who is also transparent... so I guess the transparency doesn't really matter, since Jed's dead, Rhue's alive, and they're both trasnparent...

I just noticed that all the people in the basement of the Shadow Inn are also transparent, so it seems everyone gets transparent near the end of Rhue's visit to dream Estrana.

[DSOK]

The scenes with Slade were memories, but Rhue was more then an observer in those. When Slade wakes up he says to himself whatever you say to him in the memory, so he wasn't just an observer.

I didn't feel like addressing this subtlety, because it doesn't affect the main point. What I said was correct, as written. Rhue does not have any ability to interact with the people in the memory. However, the presence of Rhue's mind as Slade relives the memory is capable of changing Slade's impression of past events. Rhue can act on Slade's current state of mind, but not on his recollections of the past.

[DSOK]

Cetsa being there for a reason totally contradicts the theory, in which, everyone in dream Estrana is there because they have all been killed by Rhue as the PS.

This theory, as I have stated, is demonstrably wrong, despite its popularity. The people in the Shadow Inn were not killed by Rhue. They died during the destruction of Estrana. If you wanted to name a human as their murderer, it would be Sacrifa.

EDIT: OK, I was slightly sloppy here. I don't mean that everyone in the Shadow Inn had to die during the city's fall, just some of them. I'm sure Impossible will continue to find a way not to understand why the "Everyone in Dream Estrana was killed by Rhue" theory is untenable, though.

[Culix]

I doubt Dirk, Kloe and Cetsa's presence in rm2k mean anything. It's like the Lexus on the tower, if we can't see her there in the game, she's probably not going to be relevant. If they are there for a reason, though, it conflicts with the theory of Rhue being responsible for the deaths of everyone there. It also conflicts with the all dead theory itself(unless Lun kills off Dirk and Scatha, and they are going to be there in Ep.6 which is highly unlikely).

While you are right that their appearance in RM2K and RM2K alone is not very good evidence, as they could easily be leftovers from Estrana in Ruins, you sound like you're under the impression that the theory of 'Everyone in The City was killed by Rhue' is the only conceivable one. Since that theory's actual feasibility is a tad on the questionable side (yeah, if Rhue is the Phantom Slasher, he's probably killed more people than we know about, but almost enough to equal the number of people in the Shadow Inn in normal Estrana along with all of the other people roaming the city seems a tad much to me), perhaps you should consider some others, like the possibility that the Shadow Swords and the minions of the Lord of the Pits are alike, so anybody killed by either of them goes to The City or a place much like it. Or perhaps Rhue's memories and the auras/memories he's gotten from others have combined to form the wierd dream-like world that is The City as Rhue's consciousness seeps more and more into his sword.

Edit: ^_^o And it would appear that DSOK beat me to the punch on that correction. Oh, well...

... unless Rhue comes across Cetsa and finishes her off(again highly unlikely because she's probably dead anyways. It's kind of a rule that if someone does something to receive peace(Slade) it shouldn't be undone).

Yes, it's doubtful that Rhue will kill Cetsa. Especially since he walked right past her near the end of Episode V. Also, that rule would definitely apply in an ideal universe, but in a world as non-ideal as that of The Way (where an innocent, naive girl living in a fairy tale world can so suddenly have her dreams of a happy ending so violently wrenched away from her), there is no such guarantee.

[Lireka]

where an innocent, naive girl living in a fairy tale world can so suddenly have her dreams of a happy ending so violently wrenched away from her

poor Lyrra... T_________T

I hope Cetsa would stay dead... er... die (since she wasn't exactly dead in E5, I don't think). She annoys me so much

[Impossible]

My God, DSOK STILL doesn't get it. Idiot.

RHUE KILLED JED. MIDIAN DID NOT DIE IN ESTRANA'S DESTRUCTION.

If Rhue's the Phantom Slasher, he definitely could have killed those people. And even if he isn't, it's entirely possible that he could have killed them all (especially if you consider Gaius' comment in Lide).

And I doubt Lun just put Lexus in there by accident.

[Exiled]

All these new people
confusing...

[Sage Of The Wise]

Just think of all of them as one person, it makes things much simpler if you don't have to give each one there own personality.

[Lord_Ehrgeiz]

Just think of all of them as one person, it makes things much simpler if you don't have to give each one there own personality.

say, have i my own personality?

[Shade]

I myself am not a believer in the Rhue killed everyone in dream Estrana theory. Oh... I guess I never introduced myself... oh well *cough* I will soon rule you all *cough*

[RentACop]

The more I looked into it the more I liked the "Rhue killed everyone in dream-Estrana" theory, but just looking at it now with RPGmaker I can see leprosy girl is still there....but then since she was already dead Rhue could see her as a sort of landmark which is why she shows up along with the buildings and crap. Of course that's undoubtedly been said before and I shall be berated for it. I will drown my sorrow in Hearts of Iron!

[Sephiroth555]

but just looking at it now with RPGmaker I can see leprosy girl is still there....but then since she was already dead

Does everyone remember that scene where the bird is eating the woman's dead body after she had been stoned to death? I don't know why, but eevrytime I view that scene, it makes me think there is something significant about it...

[Lireka]

That scene bothered me even more than when Lilah was stoned, and I agree that there might be more to it... but I can't think of what.