Strata: Down but not out?

[Takarious]

You people are looking at this in such a black and white respect. Strata's characteristics make him indeed further down the "evil" spectrum than good, albeit he might still have a shred of decency somewhere in his soul as displayed near the end of E5. If you claim that him not "taking over the world, and being ruthless" objectifys him as good, you're a fucking nimrod for trying to reduce morale values to such a narrow level. If such were the case, would that mean he's a "defender of the peace, the world's ray of hope"? Absolutely not, morality is a fusion of various shades of gray. While I/or DSOK never claimed he was absolutely evil, he is more so bad than good. You make it sound as if the only evil in the world is personified as Hitler. That is totally wrong and you've completely misunderstood the point that was made. No, being a self serving sarcastic asshole doesn't make you "evil". I'll agree with you there Inderos. But stabbing someone and leaving them for dead on the side of the road after robbing them is. Manipulating and objectifying a woman for the purpose of being your "trophy" (he probably had other "intentions" with Lyrra as well) is NOT an act of justice. Selfishness is fine so long as you don't make victims for the purpose of egotistical wanderlust.

[Inderos]

So, if I care about that beautiful necklace around my neck more than of the shopkeeper's money, I'll just steal it and heck, while I'm at it, I deem my life more important than that of the 10 policemen who come and arrest me so I shoot them all?

I think being TOO selfish is socially unacceptable, but also in some cases moraly unacceptable. If your selfishness leads to hurting others in the process that is very much an "evil" act.

You can't say something is morally unacceptable. Not everyone has the same morals. The death of others is just what Strata would call acceptable losses, the opportunity cost for his own success. He is not evil. He is what you would call Chaotic Neutral. He chooses no sides, and acts only upon whim or personal reasons. He's not guided by the Purpose in any way, and I doubt he really gives a fuck. This is why I like Strata the best .

[Culix]

Strata didn't wound Rhue to cover up theft, he wounded him to commit theft.

I don't believe that makes it alright; the fact remains that he was willing to leave someone else for dead in order to acquire something for himself. In fact, since he wounded Rhue in order to take the rabbit, I think it's a worse act than if he had wounded Rhue to cover up taking the rabbit. To clarify that: he stabbed Rhue and then took the swiftfoot, implying that, to whatever extent, Strata had thought about stabbing Rhue in order to get the bunny when he approached him. Had it been after the theft, one could chalk it up to cowardice (though, considering Strata's cocky attitude, few people would take this argument seriously), because Strata realized Rhue would try to stop him/tell others about his thievery, panicked, and then tried to limit his problems by putting Rhue out of commission. However, since that didn't happen, one cannot, in any sense, consider that action good. One could argue that, because Strata didn't stick around to finish Rhue off, since it was definitely within his power, it wasn't a totally evil act, but that doesn't excuse or exonerate it in any meaningful way.

The death of others is just what Strata would call acceptable losses, the opportunity cost for his own success. He is not evil. He is what you would call Chaotic Neutral. He chooses no sides, and acts only upon whim or personal reasons.

I'm afraid I can't agree with that. Strata considers other people's deaths as acceptable losses, true, but does that make the loss of those lives any more right? What it sounds like you're saying is that, if the person feels it's justified, it isn't actually evil. Which means that, if one has the majority of their wits about them, they can rationalize whatever they do and, therefore, it is no longer evil. Which means that Hitler and the Nazis weren't such bad guys after all because they (or at least some of them) really believed that exterminating Jews, Gypsies, and other groups would make the world a better place. Since I kinda doubt you believe that, I'd like you to clarify what you actually meant.

[Alundra]

I'm not the one to say Hilter was a good guy so don't get me wrong... but a dude like him truly existed... and killed a bizillion of people...
Hilter truly believed in his goals... How demonish they might have been... and he rallied quite a force to help him. Then the nature of strata might not be too far from the truth of actually exist...
I think that's what's meant. Some people justify things if it exists in their mind.
MIght be completely wrong though... it's late... and I didn't care to read all that's been posted...

[Nurazhi]

Culix is right. A serial killer consider's his actions to be "acceptable losses." Strata is not "chaotic neutral," because he is perfectly willing to perform what are essentially evil acts to further his own whims. Strata's personality, save for that one moment at the end of Ep 5, is entirely motivated by his own selfish desires, and he is entirely willing to kill someone to further those desires. That makes him "neutral evil," if we are using that system. People seem to be arguing that he isn't evil because he isn't out to further the cause of evil. Well, almost no one has that motivation except silly supervillains.

Right now the discussion is more about the definition of evil than about Strata. For my money, anyone who stabs someone for no other reason other than to steal something from them (or to cover it up, it doesn't make a difference in this case) and then LAUGHS about it, is evil. Someone who is selfishly motivated and feels no qualms about killing is evil. Selfishness may not be evil if it doesn't seriously hurt others, but when it does, as in Strata's case, then the line is crossed. No, Strata is not a demon, but he is "netural evil."

In The Way, discussions about Good and Evil are, to some extent, irrelevant. The game makes fun of the Paladin style goodness, with that guy who is trying to rid the Way of evil. The Way is a morally ambiguous game. So if you like Strata, then go ahead. There's nothign wrong with that. But he really does fit any useful definition of evil that doesn't involve supernatural or divine forces in some way.

[Inderos]

I'm afraid I can't agree with that. Strata considers other people's deaths as acceptable losses, true, but does that make the loss of those lives any more right? What it sounds like you're saying is that, if the person feels it's justified, it isn't actually evil. Which means that, if one has the majority of their wits about them, they can rationalize whatever they do and, therefore, it is no longer evil. Which means that Hitler and the Nazis weren't such bad guys after all because they (or at least some of them) really believed that exterminating Jews, Gypsies, and other groups would make the world a better place. Since I kinda doubt you believe that, I'd like you to clarify what you actually meant.

No, you're exactly right, that is what I'm saying. Good and evil are nothing but perceptions, and are never exactly the same between two people. People should do what they themselves feel is right, not what the rest of society feels is right. If Hitler really believed mass genocide was the solution, I would not call him evil. That doesn't mean I agree with his methods or ideas, just that I respect him for having his own and acting upon what he felt in his heart of hearts, was right.

[RentACop]

Huh. That is an interesting philosophy, but if you don't mind my saying thank god most people don't have it.

[Inderos]

Huh. That is an interesting philosophy, but if you don't mind my saying thank god most people don't have it.

I must admit, it would be pretty scary if there were a lot of people running around, thinking the same way.

[Nurazhi]

Yeah, I actually agree with that too, Inderos. I personally don't think that good and evil are externally real, and I don't really think any person is good or evil. It's the way the outside world labels them that makes a person evil, and that is based on their actions. But I do think it's fair for people to judge others based on a more universal system, even if the system itself is artificial. So even though, in his own head, Hilter may even have been doing good in the world (he may not have, I don't really know), and it's important to recognize that, I still think it is fair for the outside world to call him evil, because his actions were evil.

Of course, a lot of people do believe that evil really exists. And that's a valid philosophy, too. I just don't happen to agree with it.

[Takarious]

Like I said, the world is not black and white. As a result, the true nature of evil can only be seen in one's own light and perspective. However, Strata definately falls under the catagory of "socially unacceptable". This is not to label him as some lord of murder, as he has a shred of decency within. Evil definately exists, but since we can't really tack a true definition of the sense it holds an intangible meaning. Evil is what you make it, so what you "think" of Strata applies to you and you alone. Just don't take your side as being set in stone.

[Impossible]

If you claim that him not "taking over the world, and being ruthless" objectifys him as good, you're a fucking nimrod for trying to reduce morale values to such a narrow level.

That was NOT what I said.

[nerx]

I think we all know that he is not really evil. Now can we get back to the topic? I don't think he's out just yet, he may go after Rhue but I think something would have to change first. If you didn't get him at the end of e5 he would obviously still be after you. I think either way he will still be a thorn in Rhue's side, but just a minor one from now on.

Maybe he will get Ghost Horror?

[Inderos]

I think we all know that he is not really evil. Now can we get back to the topic? I don't think he's out just yet, he may go after Rhue but I think something would have to change first. If you didn't get him at the end of e5 he would obviously still be after you. I think either way he will still be a thorn in Rhue's side, but just a minor one from now on.

Maybe he will get Ghost Horror?

It might be interesting if one of the story splits for The Way was where Rhue died, having been killed by Strata. I tend to like stories where the main character dies, though. Not that I don't like Rhue, it just eliminates the possibility for sequels.

[Fitz Tayo]

It might be interesting if one of the story splits for The Way was where Rhue died, having been killed by Strata. I tend to like stories where the main character dies, though. Not that I don't like Rhue, it just eliminates the possibility for sequels.

Try and tell that to Square.

[Alundra]

What if Rhue cannot die?
As stated before, his sword mostly prevents him from dying in the most dire situations.
But what if he's not actually physically killable? I mean, he got a mean blow, nobody knows how long he's been lying there before dana found him. Maybe the many spirits inside rhue prevent him from killing...
I just had the weirdest idea about a cross between the matrix and ffX in which it would be rhue's spirits that actually make the way physically possible for rhue, and that he exepierences whatever his mind wants him to, much or less like a lucent dream... I'll be thinking about this theory b4 I actually wanna go in detail. BRB