BETA TOPIC: The Theory Compilation (Spoilers)

[EmperorJeramyu]

The problem is, literally EVERYONE is mistaken with the fundamental nature of this episode. It's more like Episode 4 than say... E2, which is probably what people were expecting. I mean if you think about, they have reached the "end" of The Way, so figuratively, there's actually no Way left to wander. I'm not sure what people were expecting.

If the cyclical theory is correct, the really, the only linear part of the Way that Rhue hasn't wandered is the distance between the Landorin stretch and where Jeruh was killed. But that's a good 5 years at least. Kind of makes you wonder... if The Way is really that small, you think more people would remember the scenery, unless the mists shift positions so that people always end up taking different paths, and there's a whole century long "cycle" of paths or something (There's also the speed of the mists as well...). That would explain why Dirk would probably be the most knowledgeble about The Way.

[Sage Of The Wise]

If the cyclical theory is correct, the really, the only linear part of the Way that Rhue hasn't wandered is the distance between the Landorin stretch and where Jeruh was killed.

But I thought the place at the end wasn't really the landorin stretch, since when we finally saw an accurate memory of the massacre we saw that the area were Serena fell into the river wasn't the same as the one from Rhue's memory. While I dont have a clue to what that could meen, it does allow the way to be alot longer and still be cyclical.

[Dr. Casey]

Yeah, in one version of the real ending, Rhue says, "If this Landorin, why do I remember this place?" Ugh, it's so maddening. What the hell could it mean?

[Fredric]

Another random theory; that shadow guy in the pits and the PS are souls of shadow swords.

[DSOK]

Another random theory; that shadow guy in the pits and the PS are souls of shadow swords.

Of course they are. Phantom Slasher is Rhue's sword, and The Phantom Slasher, when we see him in action, is a physical manifestation of the sword itself. (However, The Phantom Slasher that is responsible for most of the deaths on The Way is actually somebody different: Gaius.) The figure in the pits is the same sort of thing for the sword Night Reaper. It is not a lesser, because it uses a sword, and no other option seems viable.

[Fredric]

I think I read somewhere in the game that if the soul dies, a new one will grow back over time. Assuming it's the soul that holds a person's memories, isn't it possible this is what causes Rhue's personality changes.
After absorbing a lot of auras the soul will eventually be destroyed by aura-overloading and all old auras and memories will be lost.
After that a new soul will be created which will absorb some of the memories of the last person killed.
This will create an incomplete personality like the one we see in Rhue.

[Dr. Casey]

Speaking of Rhue's personality, did anyone think he seemed a bit less bitter than he had in Episode 5? Not exactly as wide-eyed and polite as he was in Episode 1, but his face wasn't frozen in the bitter expression as much as it was in the previous game.

[Alundra]

The figure in the pits is the same sort of thing for the sword Night Reaper. It is not a lesser, because it uses a sword, and no other option seems viable.

Exactly my point, as I posted a REALLY LONG TIME AGO...
and I still stick to it. I'm ever so sure that it's Trazuin who handles the sword at that point, and that the physical appearance resembles the inner person a lot (which is why it doesn't look human in traz's case...)

You don't have to take my word on this but I've been right in other cases which have been mocked a lot before... see the jeruh character in my avatar which supposedly was just another npc...

DSOK I really wonder what you think about Traz actually being the lord of the pit's son... (I'm not going to repost all of that)

[DSOK]

DSOK I really wonder what you think about Traz actually being the lord of the pit's son... (I'm not going to repost all of that)

This one seems highly unlikely. I can't think of any compelling evidence to support it, although there is an interesting related issue that I was thinking about last week.

Rhue, in Dream Estrana, has the ability to take on part of the son's power--if he becomes scarred and gains that super-powerful attack. I interpret this as indicating that Phantom Slasher has absorbed some specific powers from the son of the Lord Below. That this is the case is hardly surprising, since we know that it was contact with the Lord of the Pits and his minions (more the greater minions, like the son, than the lessers, I would think) that transmogrified the Illuminati into the Shadow Swords. It is possible that Traziun's sword, Night Reaper, also has picked up some aspects of the major demons. However, it seems clear that Traziun, who has a strong personality, has largely retained mastery of the sword, rather than letting the sword control him.

[Alundra]

don't you guys think and feel this is the better unspoiled part of the forum...? you can actually debate about the deeper things of the game here... is there any way to keep this special place even after the episode is released?

[Flibbo]

when i first joined the estrana forum was alot like that, i guess it all migrated to here when it was made

[Alundra]

Hey forerunnerz,

I've been thinking about these theories for a while now,
and even though they're all pretty random musings, do read and ponder them, instead of just dismissing them. anyhow: Gauis and Trazuin go back a long way before they escaped from the grounds, that's in short what this topic is about.

For starters, what if Kalmar isn't quite what we think he is...
Traz states that he's looking as young as ever... BUUUT here's the catch,
what if Kalmar knows of a way to transfer his aura from one body to another?
What if he has a knack (a taste) for young male bodies...? NOT IN THE COCOA WAY!
But he always picks out a young person and switches bodies with him...?

Why this theory? Well, I was wondering about the two people from which Jeruh got the nightreaper... Consider that Trazuin was fighting Kalmar and killed him, but got so drained of power that he just had to sit there... Kalmar might have migrated just before his body died into another body at that time, hence the corpse and traz was just sitting there.
The sword stuck in the ground...
That's the scene we saw when young jeruh claimed the nightreaper for himself. so that would explain the sword, the body and the person next to it... Ya see two mysteries possibly explained...

What about the sudden interest in Jeruh and his shadow sword?
It seems both Eyashu, Trazuin and Gaius were tailing this young rat...
Eyashu?? YEAH! What if rhue is none other than Eyashu who supposedly died?
In one way or another you could say that eyashu died when Rhue came into existance... But like I said, random theory...
Thing is, both Gaius and Trazuin were looking for the nightreaper.

*Gaius to give it to foreman ballar for safe keeping underneath his mansion.(that's the business he has to attend when he says he doesn't wanna go into the bar with rhue and traz)

*Traz for using it to kills his father, which makes me think that Kalmar can only be killed by using a shadow sword, which has the property of absorbing one's aura...(what? you think trazuin was sitting there near that river for no reason? He was probably chasing jeruh aswell, when the aura faided and became one with rhue... he teamed up with rhue for a reason you know...)

->If gaius is indeed Tetsel, then he gave the order to gopaga to make that aura stealing rod.
Why one might ask? I might have the answer to that!
he and trazuin might have the exact same goal in the end: stopping Kalmar, but not by using a shadow sword unlike traz wanted to do, which might create an even more dangerous being than Kalmar in the end...(with all of the aura's bound together who know's what to expect... take a
look at rhue at the end of episode 6)

->What if the dialogue in the ending might have been a bit longer?

Gaius "It's time to end this."
Rhue "No...This isn't the end.I have no end."

*Rhue Leaps Away*

Gaius "Rhue!Stop!!"
Traz "Let him go."
Gaius "No... I can't do that."
Traz "I'm not giving you a choice."
Gaius "(What a waste)"

--> additionTM:
Traz "something bothering you?"
Gaius "Yeah... I was just thinking,What a waste it is, letting him go right now."
Traz "You're afraid that he will abuse his powers, just like my father did?"
Gaius "We can't say for sure that he won't..."
Traz "He might be different, taking a different path along the way, as did we, Kura..."
Gaius "We'll see..."

(addition copyrighted to Alundra, in, no way affiliated with lun )

I'm pretty sure that this will no doubt provoke many among you, for the grand anticipated ultimate batte between two of the most intruiging protagonists of the Way won't be achieved in this theory of mine, which actually strays completely from that path...

(for the record, I really did want that battle to happen to you know... )

But I think that lun himself tried to make this clear in his game. It would actually be a cliché to make them fight...and that's one thing we can say about the way... there's hardly any clichés in the story.

Back to the eyashu topic for a split second. I think that eyashu and gaius went to the end of the way together right? and there eyashu died? what if it's a metaphor for the two of them going on journey's together for a long time? It would explain why both Dirk and scatha claim to know him
but that something changed about him... They knew eyashu but not the "newborn" rhue aka jeruh in eyashu's body.

okay back to gaius and trazuin now...
Remember the play in episode 6? The one in which both kava and kura went on a witch hunt?I've got a theory about this...
What if the 'witch' was somebody who knew dangerous magic... light magic, that could oppose the dark influence of the lord of the pits? she would have to be killed then... The guided back then might have been the servants of the lord of the pits, for all we know...The dragon that protected the witch might have been some summoned beast or an alternative form of that witch (hold on i'm gonna go deeper into the shapeshifting in a second.)

Now we know that the witch was killed... by whom? KURA...
What if (this is indeed a very long shot and very farfetched i know ) that was none other than trazuin's mom? What if trazuin is none other than Kura? Gaius might have been one of the guided back then that was somehow spared from kura's/trazuins wrath.
Why you ask? suppose that trazuin was indeed kalmar's perfect sword at that time... he could have been in a trance or such... coming back to his senses, and wanting revenge for his dead friend, thinking they betrayed him and killed kava...
What if gaius was the one to bring him back to his senses? together they might have been part of the team trying to bring down kalmar back then (if you go with my theory that kalmar is none other than the lord of the pits...).
Gaius then figured out how kalmar worked and tried to figure out a way to keep kalmar from getting new people to serve him. How? by reforming the guided to make people wander instead of settleing down...if they would settle down, they might fall under the spell of the lord of the pits again, as what happened to poor Sacrifa.

(the shapeshifting again: i'm still sure that it's trazuin you fight in the pits shifted to his true form...a property he might have gotten from his mom? that doesn't mean that traz is the mimic, that might have been his dad... the mimic was indeed the most dangerous being on the way... imagine a demon in human guise...)

Gaius might have tried to get in the favour of kalmar and thus trying to observe him, to be able to kill him later. that's why he went into the grounds according to me...

okay I know most of these theories are flawed and i'm still wondering why or how gauis became kalmar's perfect blade, and i do have some theories, but i'm keeping them for a later post.

Edit: BTW... Kyle's video just pointed something out to me:
Traz tested rhue's fighting abilities just before 'daring' him to go underground, into the lower way... perhaps if Gaius hadn't shown up surprisingly as he did, what might traz have done to rhue..? later on there might have grown a friendship between them, but i'm not sure wether it was there from the start...nor if it was traz's original intent.[/url]

[DSOK]

For starters, what if Kalmar isn't quite what we think he is...
Traz states that he's looking as young as ever... BUUUT here's the catch,
what if Kalmar knows of a way to transfer his aura from one body to another?

It's a possibility, I suppose, but there is no evidence whatsoever to support it

Why this theory? Well, I was wondering about the two people from which Jeruh got the nightreaper...

Jeruh's/Rhue's sword was Phantom Slasher. (At least, that was its shadow sword name.)

Consider that Trazuin was fighting Kalmar and killed him, but got so drained of power that he just had to sit there... Kalmar might have migrated just before his body died into another body at that time, hence the corpse and traz was just sitting there.

That would only make sense if Traziun hadn't quite obviously continued to be Traziun after this happening. Kalmar did not possess his son's body, because the Dark Lyn would not then have immediately headed off to kill himself to assuage Traziun's guilt. So what you suggest did not happen.

The sword stuck in the ground...
That's the scene we saw when young jeruh claimed the nightreaper for himself. so that would explain the sword, the body and the person next to it... Ya see two mysteries possibly explained...

The only guess at who those two figures (one dead, one either dead or moribund) with Phantom Slasher might have been is Kava and Kura. However, that's only because they're the only pair we know of associated with earlier atrocities by the sword. It seems likely to me that Kura murdered Kava a lot longer ago than the Landorin massacre, so the two people with whom Jeruh found the sword will probably forever remain nameless.

What about the sudden interest in Jeruh and his shadow sword?
It seems both Eyashu, Trazuin and Gaius were tailing this young rat...
Eyashu?? YEAH! What if rhue is none other than Eyashu who supposedly died?

"Rhue" was Midian. He was not Eyashu; he was Midian. Neither Traziun nor Eyashu had anything to do with Jeruh.

Now we know that the witch was killed... by whom? KURA...
What if (this is indeed a very long shot and very farfetched i know ) that was none other than trazuin's mom? What if trazuin is none other than Kura? Gaius might have been one of the guided back then that was somehow spared from kura's/trazuins wrath.

So the witch is Traziun's Mom? That would make Kalmar Kava, and Traziun/Kura would be travelling with his father before his parents even met. Seriously, this theory is DOA.

(the shapeshifting again: i'm still sure that it's trazuin you fight in the pits shifted to his true form...a property he might have gotten from his mom? that doesn't mean that traz is the mimic, that might have been his dad... the mimic was indeed the most dangerous being on the way... imagine a demon in human guise...)

The being you plunge against in the pits is The Night Reaper. Like The Phantom Slasher, he is a physical projection of a shadow sword's power. It is manifestly not a demon, since demons do not wield swords.

[Sage Of The Wise]

What if the 'witch' was somebody who knew dangerous magic... light magic, that could oppose the dark influence of the lord of the pits? she would have to be killed then... The guided back then might have been the servants of the lord of the pits, for all we know...

The Guided weren't created until after the destruction of Janwen, to enforce the ideas of the purpose (mainly wandering), most likly using Janwen as their main example of why not to settle. They couldn't have been servents of the lord of the pits.

[Alundra]

Umm, dsok, and sage, i'm sorry but either i was vague in my explications or you just misread a lot of things...

Btw, the guided existed during the time of the kava kura ordeal, which might have been in the time frame of the destruction of janwen...

Why this theory? Well, I was wondering about the two people from which Jeruh got the nightreaper...

Yes indeed i might have been wrong about the name of rhue's actual sword but ur missing the point!!! JERUH the man killed by rhue and gaius carried a sword too!!!!!!!!! that is the same sword that is under the ballar mansion, the same one traz dives in the pits for and kills his father with!!!
i wasn't even talking about rhue here...

Consider that Trazuin was fighting Kalmar and killed him, but got so drained of power that he just had to sit there... Kalmar might have migrated just before his body died into another body at that time, hence the corpse and traz was just sitting there.

That would only make sense if Traziun hadn't quite obviously continued to be Traziun after this happening. Kalmar did not possess his son's body, because the Dark Lyn would not then have immediately headed off to kill himself to assuage Traziun's guilt. So what you suggest did not happen.


I'm not talking about kalmar posessing his own son here...i'm saying he left for another body leaving trazuin sitting next to the corpse of his former body, leaving also trazuin's sword the nightreaper there... (or whaterver that name was it's not the phantom slasher or the sword lyrra ultimately obtains)
besides you messed up two distinct things that have to stay together read on

The sword stuck in the ground...
That's the scene we saw when young jeruh claimed the nightreaper for himself. so that would explain the sword, the body and the person next to it... Ya see two mysteries possibly explained...

The only guess at who those two figures (one dead, one either dead or moribund) with Phantom Slasher might have been is Kava and Kura. However, that's only because they're the only pair we know of associated with earlier atrocities by the sword. It seems likely to me that Kura murdered Kava a lot longer ago than the Landorin massacre, so the two people with whom Jeruh found the sword will probably forever remain nameless.


I'm saying that those two figures aren't exactly kura and kava but traz near the former body of his dad... and will you quit the damn phantom slasher sword thingy... it is a different sword all together! so are jeruh and rhue before rhue becomes rhue...

look this is how i see it... traz fights his dad, kills the body but the spirit manages to get away... traz sits there really beat up and maybe even confounded by his dad (hence the sound he makes) jeruh happens to stroll along and picks up the nightreaper (yeah not ps!!)
he goes off and manages to kill serena and hurts midian.

midian wants vengance on jeruh so becomes a sellsword, continualy sharpening his skills...

rhue or whomever he is travels around with gaius pursuing the evil jeruh (who is only evil due to the sword) and kills jeruh... he reseves the soul of jeruh inside him and becomes confounded by the strange memories...
gauis takes up the nightreaper which is left near jeruh's corpse and takes it along to ballar's manor...

rhue did posess a sword because else he couldn't have killed jeruh... that sword might indeed be abauta or ps whatever u wanna call it...

rhue continues his path meeting with dana and wes and so on and then meets bounty hunter midian who recognizes the aura of jeruh and tries to kill rhue... but he gets killed instead and rhue's sword absorbs that of midian... and then he starts to have those nightmares, because the two arua's are working against eachother... it becomes worse when he absorbs jed right... (why do i think i'm right? because rhue happens to have weird flashback dreams each time he has killed one of the main characters of his past)

trazuin wanted his sword back, "stolen" by jeruh a long time ago, to finish what he started, namely killing his father,so he is also tracking down the aura left by jeruh and then finds rhue... who happens to posess the aura of jeruh but not the sword... so he tags along hoping to uncover more of the sword, and then he sees that rhue has a mighty fine sword and wants to know more when the reach the town of ballar....

So there you have it besides you never went into detail about what i stated, namely gaius and 'rhue' travelling together to kill jeruh... gaius and eyashu were seen together which is stated in the game...


So the witch is Traziun's Mom? That would make Kalmar Kava, and Traziun/Kura would be travelling with his father before his parents even met. Seriously, this theory is DOA.

not really dude look at what i'm trying to say here, we KNOW kava ... he's dead, dead by the ps sword, he lives in the dream estrana, we know how he looks and all... i'm not saying kalmar is kava... you just have to read it all agian or just wait till i'm feeling better to explain it more into detail (or join me on msn or such so we can talk 'face to face' which is more easy then on a board) -> right now i'm at home suffering from severe bronchitis so... wish me better soon

The being you plunge against in the pits is The Night Reaper. Like The Phantom Slasher, he is a physical projection of a shadow sword's power. It is manifestly not a demon, since demons do not wield swords.[/quote] okay ur right here... but then one thing you've gotta explain... who's projecting the thing, like rhue projects the ps, somebdoy has to project this one, since it's not the sword on it's own...
trazuin anyone, seeing how miss goldylocks is out cold at the time...
catch u dude's later btw this is all in good fun so don't feel offended, i'm just having a blas trying to figure this plot out ^_^