Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[Inderos]

Basically the Bible is edited by whoever wins. If the Germans had won the war, don't you think they'd have made the bible say that massacring 5,000,000 Jews is A-OK?

The Bible's a religous book, not a sixth grade history book you can buy for 4.99 in the local book shop.

And that some how makes it more credible?


Oh, also:

If you wanna talk genocides, the Holocaust was definitely not the worse. Not even close.

And WHERE did I say that?

Really, WHAT do we want? We've been nearly genocided, hated everywhere.

[Sarcasm]

Tsk, When one conflict ends, Another will begin. People will always seek power, And as you all know, Power corrupts. These few powerful people will, As always, Use religion as an excuse and a way to bend the masses to their will.

Perhaps this issue be solved, Perhaps it cannot, But no matter what

We are just humans.

[Legend of the Past]

the Holocaust was definitely not the worse

Maybe, when it's bold, you'll notice I meant I never said it was the worst. I just said we got genocided. More than once.

And that some how makes it more credible?

Naturally. Do you even KNOW what the Old Testament is all about?

It's meant to teach us how to behave between ourselves and between God. It's not a book on how Jews rock and God loves them, it's about how God rocks and Jews love him, and how they should love him and each other, NOT about how we won this and this war.

Not to mention the Nazis would burn all the Bibles.

We are just humans.

Sucks, doesn't it? But you gotta deal with what you've got. I just want to be left in peace. Don't know about everyone else, though.

[Inderos]

And that some how makes it more credible?

Naturally. Do you even KNOW what the Old Testament is all about?

It's meant to teach us how to behave between ourselves and between God. It's not a book on how Jews rock and God loves them, it's about how God rocks and Jews love him, and how they should love him and each other, NOT about how we won this and this war.

Please don't question my own knowledge of Theology. My first name is Judah, and though I'm not Jewish, I'm quite well versed in Juddaism. You're beginning to show more intolerance, because you apparently think EVERYONE believes in God. Who are you to say what the Old Testament is all about? Please, in this intellectual arguement about the problems in Israel, leave your God at home. You might believe every bit of text in the Bible, but a lot of people don't.

[Legend of the Past]

Who are you to say what the Old Testament is all about?

Someone's who studied it for the last 10 years. And got damn good grades at it, too.

Please, in this intellectual arguement about the problems in Israel, leave your God at home.

I'm cool with that.

You might believe every bit of text in the Bible, but a lot of people don't.

I never said they do. I speak out of my own belief. If you find that wrong then I've got to say, you need to start thinking about how you behave around people. I say I believe in God and you act like that's some big taboo, the most terrible thing someone can include in a conversation.

I don't mind dropping my belief from the conversation. If it bothers you that much, fine. But at least act more friendly towards me: Sorry if I offended you, I didn't try to. I really can't see what I did to justify this kind of treatment. You basically called me in this conversation an egoistic fool who wants nothing but attention. I asked for opinions and voiced my own, something that's been done by everyone else, and I'm certain by you too. Why you had to attack me like this is beyond me.

[ReaperGal]

Why you had to attack me like this is beyond me.

That's right. We're all attacking you. [/sarcasm]

You see, we really aren't. You're just taking all our opinions, making them straw-man arguments. Then you take the moral high ground and act like we're victimizing you.

If you think killing people is the solution, well, I can't say I share your view.

it's our 'fault' someone gave us a bit of land? I might of come out as trying to make the Jews seem like matyrs, but you come out as trying to make us look like evil, land-grabbing monsters that exist only to ruin the life of the Arabs.

You want to support Hamas, terrorism and death? Fine, I won't agree with you, but sure. I just want peace. How it comes, is a totally different matter, but I'm not moving away.

Then you get patronizing.

"Well, I never said the Israeli-Palestinian is the most important in the world. Sure, it's the most important to me, like yours is more important, and the same way it's important to catch Bin-Laden. Or was. Before the US got bored with him."

Next flaw...

Maybe, when it's bold, you'll notice I meant I never said it was the worst. I just said we got genocided. More than once.

And that makes you special? People have even tried to racially cleanse the Slovakians. It's not like Genocide is an uncommon thing. Awful, yes. The 'native americans' (I prefer the term 'indian' for reasons I won't go into right now) were completely wiped away. Only a few still remain, and their culture has been eliminated. They're lucky enough to have that culture remain in the history books, and at least it won't be forgotten completely.
Now, Isreal is not the last bastion of Judaism in the world. Your religion, your culture, and your people's place in the world is secure.
You don't realize how lucky you are.

Oh, and it's very hard to keep religion out of the conversation when you talk about the isreal conflict, because without religion, the problem disappears.

[Legend of the Past]

Hmm. I'm not saying you're all attacking me. I'm just saying it looks like he's trying to tell me how much I suck and should go drown myself.

Certainly, we're not special. I never said Genocide is a rare thing that makes whoever goes through it a matyr. I guess the Holocaust is just a big deal here so it became a part of me I'll always compare. No one's really at fault, I know, but I guess it's just become a part of me as part of the culture I live in.

Listen, I don't want to cause any trouble. If it's such a headache, you can lock the discussion now and that's the last you'll hear about it from me. All I really wanted is to see how people think of this conflict. The evidence of the poll are clear, people prefer the conflict to just end. I'm pleased. If anyone wants to press his point, sure. I'm really sick and tired of this, it really looks like you're trying to make me feel guilty for whatever reason. Not blaming, just how it looks. Take into acount where I'm from and the effects of the events leading up to this post had on me. Maybe you'll realize this means more to me. Part of human nature, yes, what concerns me seems more important to me. Nothing I can do about it. Just like you look at the holocaust like something that isn't that terrible, I look at the other genocides as meaningless. Blame me if you will, but the fact you look at the holocaust this weakly makes you not much different.

Now, if you want this discussion to end, fine by me. Say the word and I woulden't mind if one of the admins would lock it. If you choose to do so, sorry for wasting your time. I'll try to avoid it in the future.

[Sarcasm]

Why you had to attack me like this is beyond me.

That's right. We're all attacking you. [/sarcasm]

*insert lame joke about copyrights here*

[War]

Basically you will see that most sane people in the Western world are really pissed off right now about all this conflicts that is happening in the world. For a while now people had been feeling pretty safe from all of it. It was just something you saw on 20/20 once and awhile. Now its kind of like a wake up call for us all as it seems these conflicts are now wanting to come to us, for some reason most people don't know. No one knows what the best path is to fix it all, so everyone is just pissed off about it. That is the general feel of the western world right now.

[Legend of the Past]

Would cause tension. Terrorist orginizations are getting more powerful with biological\chemical weapons, so they're feeling more safe to attack the Superpower.

[Inderos]

Just like you look at the holocaust like something that isn't that terrible, I look at the other genocides as meaningless.

Where did ANY of us say that the Holocaust was not terrible? It was a terrible thing, but it wasn't the most horrible act in history. We don't take it lightly, but we also don't let it move all of our thoughts.

[iamtheverb]

[Greatchickenman]

I think it's so funny that he said in the beginning of the topic that he wasn't going to elaborate on his side of the argument but after about 3 posts he elaborates greatly about his side of the argument.

[fwacho]

well crud, my 1yearold just erased my post. try agian
first the good new...
there will be peace in Israel.

the bad news....
It will only last 3 1/2 of the 7 years promised ( for people who have seen peace deals in the past this should be no surprise.)

until this deal there will be fighting and no end in violence. there is an arabic quote that goes "He who takes his revenge before 40 years have passed has acted too soon". thus as you can see there would need to be a few generations before peace would be even a remote posisbility. this is also while even if Israel stop realiating there would be no end in violence. the palestinians are a very socially oriented people (I've met a few and worked with one for more than a year) On of the reasons they genrally dislike america is that we are so individualistic as a culture. There cultrue is all about taking care of their neighbors (we in America often don't even know our neighbor's names) If one of their neighbors gets hurt then the revenge kicks in as they feel justice must be doen for how their nieghbor was wronged. (at this point enough neighbors have been wronged to have all palestine up in arms). This is also why peace will never happen short of a mass death caused by in-human means -- a great plauge wiping out 90% of region might calm people down enough to let a few thign go as there are more pressing needs.

On another thought. the history of Israel as a state is chalked full of miracles and chance meetings. read "O Jerusalem" for a well organized collecin of newspaper clippings and personal accounts for a just a sample. it's amazing reading, truly amazing. even down to the story about 4 or 5 Jewish teenagers holding out in one building despite amazing odds. Their last stand (which succeded of all things with a "luckily" thrown moltov cocktail) was in the room dedicated to the patron saint of lost causes.

also do not use God's proper name (It's inpronouncable anyway if you can read hebrew) the proper form of address is Adoni (Lord).

As for the conflict. I support Israel, but the palestinians have some very valid objections.

I will also note that most of the land was bought by Jews and then developed by them to make it productive. (thus causing jealousy as something originally sold as worthless--which it was-- was now more valuble than land held on to) there are also water rights issues which even the US has dealt with in the Western states though not so pronounced.

bascilly teh situation is this, every body has been wronged and there is no way to make the hard feeling disipate due to cultural issues. War is there and will never leave until the Prince of Peace himself returns.

but yes It would be nice to have a long lull or ten in the fighting. but I'm a realist.

I will also say that the day the US turns it back on Israel ( and it will someday--Israel will stand alone, and stand they will.) is the day this country goes down the drain not just metaphoically.

[Strayed Wanderer]

We are just humans.

No, you're just humans. Most of us are fucking gods.