Richard Dawkins- The Root of all evil

[Sling]

Since when do albino's have red hair?
Some have pink/red eyes (which may signify some kind of vampirism) but their hair is either white or platinum blonde.

[Ghoti]

I know about that. That's the problem here. I guess I'm looking for ones who chose to dye their hair red, if there are any.

[Strayed Wanderer]

That picture scares me.

[TeppicTheBloodLyn]

Can we get back on topic, please?

[Ghoti]

Okay, sure, um...

I think trying to find real truth is much more rewarding than blind faith.

Or whatever.

[Strayed Wanderer]

Can we get back on topic, please?

Are you a fucking moron? We want to stay away from the topic.

[Ghoti]

I dunno about that, Strayed. I don't see anything wrong with the topic. Discussion of matters such as this can lead to more open-mindedness for all of us. It could potentially change our lives for the better. I think that's a good thing.

[TeppicTheBloodLyn]

Just found this on wikipedia and thought I might as well share it since Aegis is most probably going to ignore my post anyway. It's with regard to the claim that micro-evolution is possible wheras macro-evolution is not possible. Which is a strange claim, since it would suggest that some creature evolved while others were created. It would also mean that the digestice systems evolved later than the creatures themselves, since they rely on bacteria.

But enough of my ranting, here's the text I would like to quote:

Hawthorn fly

A clear case of evolution as an ongoing, observable fact involves the hawthorn fly, Rhagoletis pomonella. Different populations of hawthorn fly feed on different fruits. A new population spontaneously emerged in North America in the 19th century some time after apples, a non-native species, were introduced. The apple feeding population normally feeds only on apples and not on the historically preferred fruit of hawthorns. Likewise the current hawthorn feeding population does not normally feed on apples. A current area of scientific research is the investigation of whether or not the apple feeding race may further evolve into a new species.

Some evidence, such as the fact that six out of thirteen alozyme loci are different, that hawthorn flies mature later in the season and take longer to mature than apple flies; and that there is little evidence of interbreeding (researchers have documented a 4-6% hybridization rate) suggests that this is indeed occurring. The emergence of the new hawthorn fly is an example of macroevolution in process.

[Greatchickenman]

There's also the peppered moth study which took place over about 80 years I think.

The forest was full of white moths with black spots until soot from the nearby industrial plant covered all the trees. When the data was recorded later, nearly all of the white moths with black spots had disappeared and the forest was predominantly filled with black moths. Hence, microevolution.

[TeppicTheBloodLyn]

Actually, Moths are big enough to be conidered macro-evolution. Micro-evolution only applies to microbes, such as the nylon or oil eating bacteria, HIV, and the bacteria that you use to digest food.

[ReaperGal]

Actually, Moths are big enough to be conidered macro-evolution. Micro-evolution only applies to microbes, such as the nylon or oil eating bacteria, HIV, and the bacteria that you use to digest food.

Huh. I was under the impression that 'microevolution' was change within a species, and macroevolution was the change from one species to another.

[TeppicTheBloodLyn]

Well, this is macro-evolution under either definition, since you have two distinct species unable to interbreed without bearing sterile offspring.

I took my definition of macro-evolution from Aegis, who said that mutation in larger creatures were rare since the radiation would have to affect the growing embryo in the womb of the mother. But mutations among bacteria are more common, since they are such a small collection of cells anyway, that radiation will cause a shift in the gene-material of the microbe.

Of course, it is the same mechanism behind the mutation anyway, meaning that they can both happen at a rate high enough to affect evolution, no matter the size of the creature. A small change in the gene material can cause a big difference. Also, due to sexual reproduction, abnormalities appear in popultaions on larger creatures even without the need of mutation.

[Telephalsion]

Actually, Moths are big enough to be conidered macro-evolution. Micro-evolution only applies to microbes, such as the nylon or oil eating bacteria, HIV, and the bacteria that you use to digest food.

RONG!

Macro- and microevolution do not refer to lifeform size, but the scale of the changes.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Microevolution is the occurrence of small-scale changes in allele frequencies in a population, over a few generations, also known as change at or below the species level.

These changes may be due to several processes: mutation, natural selection, gene flow, and genetic drift.

Population genetics is the branch of biology that provides the mathematical structure for the study of the process of microevolution. Ecological genetics concerns itself with observing microevolution in the wild. Typically, observable instances of evolution are examples of microevolution; for example, bacterial strains that have antibiotic resistance.

Microevolution can be contrasted with macroevolution; which is the occurrence of large-scale changes in gene frequencies, in a population, over a geological time period (i.e. consisting of lots of microevolution). The difference is largely one of approach. Microevolution is reductionist, but macroevolution is holistic. Each approach offers different insights into evolution.

Because microevolution can be observed directly, creationists agree that it occurs, though they tend to make a distinction between microevolution, macroevolution, and speciation.

[TeppicTheBloodLyn]

Very well, I have been proved wrong on that point, and I deeply apologise for not looking more into the matter before making a faulty assumption.

[Telephalsion]

Oh don't worry, you gave me the change to beat someone in an argument, which is always nice. Even though we didn't argue since i was so good at prooving my point you jsut gave up, cause I was right. And I rock. And I'm hot...

What's your thought on macroevolution then?