Evolution/Big Bang

[Forerunner]

I think a better question is, where did the hydrogen and what-not come from in the first place?
Now I don't believe in God or any of those other omnipotent trancendant beings, but I just can't understand how one day (errr no sun)... once apon a time, suddenly there was matter and this matter eventually gave birth to life. Just like wondering how does the universe exist and how big is it. It just doesn't fit.
Makes me think of a scenario like the Matrix or Star Ocean, but of course those seem even less likely.

[TeppicTheBloodLyn]

I think a better question is, where did the hydrogen and what-not come from in the first place?
Now I don't believe in God or any of those other omnipotent trancendant beings, but I just can't understand how one day (errr no sun)... once apon a time, suddenly there was matter and this matter eventually gave birth to life. Just like wondering how does the universe exist and how big is it. It just doesn't fit.
Makes me think of a scenario like the Matrix or Star Ocean, but of course those seem even less likely.

Well, some say that there wan't once upon a time before the big bang either, since time is just a property of space (relativist space-time), so there wasn't a suddenly for matter and space to appear in, nor was there any space for any process leading to the big bang to happen in, even if time had existed.

Then again, we don't really know anything about the universe before the big bang, if there was one.

[Burning_Flame]

Well I don't beleive in creation, mostly because first they say that the subatomic particles had to have had a begining, that everything had a begining. Exept God. He was here forever.
But if everything accually always has been here.... It hurts my brain just thinking about it.

[Teenr0cker]

Aside from proving religion wrong or right, what exactly is accomplished if we know how the universe 'began' so to say?


I don't care to ponder this question aloud, so I leave you to ponder....That's a funny verb, ponder.

[Strayed Wanderer]

Having difficulty believing that something was here at the beginning stems from believing that everything has a concrete beginning. The only thing that stops people from believing that something was always there is the way we were taught to think, not everything actually needs a beginning or end. Believing in god is actually no different than believing in no beginning or end to existence, it's abstract thought.

If you keep arguing about how it started, you'll keep hitting the same wall, hopefully after a while you'll get what you deserve, death.

[TeppicTheBloodLyn]

Aside from proving religion wrong or right, what exactly is accomplished if we know how the universe 'began' so to say?


I don't care to ponder this question aloud, so I leave you to ponder....That's a funny verb, ponder.

Well, we have rather extensive data on the universe after the big bang (not complete, but we're getting closer). Obtaining some form of understanding about how this came to be would give some incredible insights into the inner workings of the universe, which we need to ensure our own survival. Otherwie we're likely to either be enbeded in the bedrock or buried under a few kilometers of ice when the next meteor or iceage hits us. Which might be sooner than we think. Some people say we are already living on borrowed time.

Also, according to the observations on the growth of organisms done by Thomas Malthus, the growth of an population of organsims is exponential, while the growth of resources is linear (well, not really linear, but less that exponential, certainly). This means that sooner or later the resources on earth will be unable to support us, and our only probable way of surviving other than reverting to wild barbarism would be to start colonising other planets.

And Strayed, I'm sorry for not replying to your post, but I'm not that good at philosophical questions.

[Sling]

If the universe was created from particles colliding over time then what is there to get excited about?

[Strayed Wanderer]

I didn't pose a question. I stated that you are all idiots for questioning the beginning of the universe.

[Sling]

I don't question the beginning of the universe. I question why people question the beginning of the universe. Also, I wasn't talking to you. It's just that Teppic said that as we draw nearer to the beginnings of the universe then it'll help us somehow and I was saying how if it is just particles colliding over time then what's there to get excited about.
I don't actually care mindyou, I was just speculating and/or questioning about other peoples' theories.

[TeppicTheBloodLyn]

I don't question the beginning of the universe. I question why people question the beginning of the universe. Also, I wasn't talking to you. It's just that Teppic said that as we draw nearer to the beginnings of the universe then it'll help us somehow and I was saying how if it is just particles colliding over time then what's there to get excited about.
I don't actually care mindyou, I was just speculating and/or questioning about other peoples' theories.

The reason it is interesting is that we don't know whenever either time or space or matter existed before the big bang. If they did, where did they come from and why can't we detect them? If they didn't, how did they come into being. Those are the questions that are interesting for a deeper understanding of the physical universe.

[Sling]

Now I understand everything. So the Big Bang was not the original origin of the universe and you're trying to find out what caused the Big Bang, which will lead into a never-ending cycle of asking "But What caused that?" unless you come to God, who 'Always Existed', which would destroy your mind thinking about it. Why do people give such a toss about what created everything anyway? I can't really think right now so, yeah... er, what was I saying? Anywho, someone said it was silly to think about what created the universe, it is interesting however, but silly, becuase trying to think about it would mess with your head. It's like, "what came first the chicken or the egg?" or something like that.

[Strayed Wanderer]

I don't question the beginning of the universe. I question why people question the beginning of the universe. Also, I wasn't talking to you. It's just that Teppic said that as we draw nearer to the beginnings of the universe then it'll help us somehow and I was saying how if it is just particles colliding over time then what's there to get excited about.
I don't actually care mindyou, I was just speculating and/or questioning about other peoples' theories.

I wasn't talking to you.

[TeppicTheBloodLyn]

Now I understand everything. So the Big Bang was not the original origin of the universe and you're trying to find out what caused the Big Bang, which will lead into a never-ending cycle of asking "But What caused that?" unless you come to God, who 'Always Existed', which would destroy your mind thinking about it. Why do people give such a toss about what created everything anyway? I can't really think right now so, yeah... er, what was I saying? Anywho, someone said it was silly to think about what created the universe, it is interesting however, but silly, becuase trying to think about it would mess with your head. It's like, "what came first the chicken or the egg?" or something like that.

From an evolutionist viewpoint, it was the egg (refering to your last question).

Anyway, you missed my point. I know that the idea of continous causes is flawed, because that would mean an infinite space of events backwards, which wouldn't solve the problem, since you could still ask the question what caused the universe to exist for an infinite amount of time. God doesn't solve the problem either, since you could ask the question what caused god to be around forever? The only other possibillity is that there was a form of eventless unit, before the universe (in the extent you can use time like definitions on a place without space or events, which you can't,) from which time, space, and matter sprung. We do not know how a place where events can happen without causes would funtion, if it at all would, or how it would lead to a place where all events do have causes. That's what we're trying to find out.

But, like I said, we don't really know anything, so from that point of view all things are equally possible: that there was nothing there, that everything was there, that there was a or multiple gods, or a galactic chicken that lay a giant egg. However, just because all things are possible does not mean that all things are true. We're trying to find out what is. And just because god is a possibillity doesn't mean you can say it's true, especially since there is no real empirical evidence for a creator troughout the universe we are able to observe.

[War]

People want to know because there humans. Humans want to know everything that they like.

[TeppicTheBloodLyn]

People want to know because there humans. Humans want to know everything that they like.

Indeed, that is one of our chief survival traits.